Greenberg says that he went into the study feeling that he had the symptoms of depression, but that they were mild and a normal response to life stresses. He was surprised when he was actually diagnosed as having major depression. Keep in mind that Dr. Greenberg is himself a practicing psychotherapist and well-experienced with diagnosing depression.
The primary point that Greenberg expressed in the interview is that we are taking a normal human experience and turning it into a disease. He makes it clear that he has no problem with relieving the suffering of depression with drugs, but he questions whether we have turned normal blue moods into a disease in order to justify medicating away sadness.
I think he is asking an important question. How do we distinguish the sad moods we all experience from chronic chemical imbalance? Are we too quick to call depression an illness instead of accepting that unhappiness is a natural part of life?
I hope you'll listen to the podcast and join the discussion below.
Has the criteria for “normal blue moods” changed that much or could it be that Dr. Greenburg was actually in a major depressive state? I have suffered from a Major Depressive Disorder + G.A.D. w/agoraphobia; I have seen doctors just as depressed as I have been on a good day. They are human just as I am. Can not their brain chemicals go out of whack once in a while, too? I didn’t notice that he said he had major depression – recurrent. So, he must be off his medication by now or at least on his way down. I do not see anything wrong with that. Again, it sounds like we are going back to the Tom Cruise – Brooke Shields ordeal. Taking an anti-depressant shouldn’t be something awful. Those who need it short term to help them out should be thankful.
Blessings,
Starshine
Has the criteria for “normal blue moods” changed that much or could it be that Dr. Greenburg was actually in a major depressive state? I have suffered from a Major Depressive Disorder + G.A.D. w/agoraphobia; I have seen doctors just as depressed as I have been on a good day. They are human just as I am. Can not their brain chemicals go out of whack once in a while, too? I didn’t notice that he said he had major depression – recurrent. So, he must be off his medication by now or at least on his way down. I do not see anything wrong with that. Again, it sounds like we are going back to the Tom Cruise – Brooke Shields ordeal. Taking an anti-depressant shouldn’t be something awful. Those who need it short term to help them out should be thankful. I’ll be on them the rest of my life, but I’m still thankful, cuz they help me lead a better life.
Blessings,
Starshine
I feel that the problem of depression or what ever the case may be needs to be fix. Now, if medication is give it is just blocking the problem. Therefore you need some kind of treatment to go along with the medication to fix the problem. So many people and parents have them self or children…. or Both put on medication because they cant deal life. The Doctors who prescribe this medication should MAKE SURE that the person is doing something like therapy and be involved with it as well. Too much medication is being given without any checking to make sure the problem is being fixed. Its very hard to get off medication and then when your life is not going like you want it, you just turn to medication again to cover up your problems. I have been there and done that and still struggle daily with my depression. HINT– Think positive, live positive and you will see a difference! :0)
I hope this whole idea presented by Greenburg and repeated in a format here does not trivialize the issue of depression and how it is being treated. It has been my experience in the past 14 years, that physicians and especially psychiatists have become very good at distinguishing between intermittent “sad” or “blue” moods, and those of major depression. And they seem to be treating them accordingly in appropriate manners. Oftentimes, those intermittent dips in moods which are normal for most everyone are treated with counseling and coping skills to help the individual through those valleys. However, when it comes to constant, everyday, relentless depression that renders the individual often or completely incapable of functioning, those individuals are given an appropriate diagnosis and medicated as needed. Medications along with therapy is often the answer for those types of people. It has not been my experience that we carelessly slap a label on them and “overmedicate” them, as a general rule. Do we understand all the workings and etiology of depression, neurotransmitters and the brain? Absolutely not. But we should not begin to lump those people with occassional sadness into the other group with chronic depressives.
I have experienced ‘depression’ my entire life. For me it was a learned coping structure. I was not sad, I had no emotion. I kept every feeling from showing. I was not taught proper expression for any feelings. I believe both parents were also depressed. My mother was diagnosied as depressed in the 50’s and underwent ECT. This made her even ‘further away’. My father drank himself to death at 44, and my mother left with 8 children; 21 to 4, continued in her disease to this day. Even with dementia, she has depression. Having the ‘choice’ to kill myself daily, was my security blamket into adulthood. I saw many psychiatrists for a few moments and many immediately prescribed medication. I refused, I didn’t want my ‘depression’ just covered up, considering my parents experiences.
I had several bad episodes where I ended up hospitalized. With no medical follow-up. I just thought this was the way life was. My father always proclaimed that no one needed ‘help’ we could just wake up happy on our own if we made up our minds to do it.
Finally, in 2002 (I was 52 years old) I experienced a severe episode. At that time a phychiatrist TALKED to me (in the emmergency room at Kaiser-BIG PLUG!) She just asked me if I knew that most people feel good most of the time? I didn’t. Most people I knew didn’t. She EXPLAINED how & why the medications work. I’ve been on them for 5 years and they do work. Note: they are not ‘magic’ pills. I still have to ‘do daily work’ learning how to have appropriate emotions and expressing them. And some days I don’t want to get out of bed, but I CAN get out! With depression, I really wasn’t physically able to move from my bed. I’d spend DAYS sleeping!!! (Escaping)
I think we are becoming much more aware of the disease of depression thus, hopefully, more people who truly have it will get the needed help, both medical & psychological. And if some people just need a little help getting through a tough time, it’s there for them too! I believe that the doctors for the most part, are truely wanting to help. The past 5 years have not been the easiest of my life, but they have been the most ‘feeling’ ones. I think people need to understand that we need to feel ALL emotions to be healthy and grow. (Sorry for the spellings errors.)
It seems to me clinical depression is very misunderstood. I have severe depression which comes and goes independent of any circumstances in my life. Medication sometimes helps. But to those who know me well, it is obvious that I have a medical condition. I hope this podcast does not further contribute to the misunderstanding most of society has for depression. I am certain if my symptoms were not being treated with medication, I would either be self-medicating (with alcohol or other drugs) or dead.
In his interview Greenburg seems to minimalize depression and the terrible suffering associated with it that so many of us have struggled
with. Of course the unhappiness of temporary setbacks and difficulties are a natural part of life, and “healthy” individuals are able to recover and move on. But the persistent pain of clinical depression is NOT a “normal” human experience any more than is cancer or AIDS. They are all diseases, which need treatment, which may include medication (as well as psycho- and other therapies).
If Dr Greenburg (and yourself) personally experienced a major depression, as many of us here have, I think you both would easily be able to tell the difference between a normal blue mood and the devastatingly real thing. I find that the standard tests developed to diagnose depression clearly do allow everyday sad moods to be distinguished from chronic chemical imbalance and clinical depression (Greenburg’s own purported personal – and biased – experience notwithstanding).
And Greenburg contradicts himself by questioning the reality of depression as a real medical disease, yet supporting treatment of this disease with medication – only real medical illnesses are validly treated with medication.
I just wanted to say I agree very much with Peter (April 26th, 2007, 9:49 am). Yes, there is the unhappiness, setbacks, disappointments, difficulties and just plain bad luck that are a ‘normal’ part of life. HOWEVER… there is ‘clinical’ depression, which I have had (every several years; without ‘manic highs’) that are a whole different ’species’ of depression. That is not a part of “normal” human experience. It is a VERY real, very serious, and very treatable illness. More than once I’ve survived having my life come to a complete standstill because of Depression. And most doctors and counselors HAVE been very helpful. I survived and moved on with my life after these major disruptions, and become stronger each time. (Understanding myself more each time… I am now without a doubt convinced that, in my case, it IS a chemical imbalance)… but I would rather NOT have gome through these ’bouts’, these near deaths of my spirit. And then the ‘battles’ to win back my self-esteem and happiness.
Having people out there who still don’t take it that seriously and make blanket assumptions that its all in your head; or all you need is an attitude adjustment, etc, is very frustrating.
This is in response to Karen’s (April 25, 2007 @ 9:06 am) post (#3):
You make a lot of claims and assumptions about clinical depression that I would like to clarify. Firstly, for many of us (like myself) diagnosed with clinical/severe depression, medication is most certainly not “just blocking the problem” as you say. Clinical depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain ONLY treatable with medication (and sometimes with the help of therapy). For example, I KNOW I have a lot going for me; I like who I am, and know I am lucky to have the things I do (gorgeous son, great family and friends, good job). Yet I still have depression. Therapy is not beneficial to me because there is no environmental/circumstancial reason for me feeling depressed. I simply have a chemical imbalance in my brain. When I’m on my medication, I feel normal. If I forget to take my pill (even without realizing it), I become very sad, hopeless…depressed.
This is what clinical depression is. A physical disease. Although I know you mean well when you say, “Think positive, live positive and you will see a difference! :0)”, I can attest to the fact that, if indeed you have a chemical imbalance in your brain, no amount of thinking positively will help alleviate your depressive symptoms. I know: I tried before I began my meds (which thank God work for me). And I believe it is this attitude: “Hey, just think happy thoughts and you’ll feel better”(what I call the Tom Cruise gobbledeegook)–that perpetuates the misconception that depression is a weakness of character instead of a true physical ailment.